April 22, 20205 yr comment_471146 2 minutes ago, 17to85 said: Simon was better as a receiver than Allen was as a qb. something something low bar....
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471154 On 2020-04-21 at 2:55 PM, Bubba Zanetti said: Man, that was a great team. If only Dave Ritchie could have contained some of those huge egos & big mouths during Grey Cup week they'd have been champions. Bolden ran his mouth all week. Real shame.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471155 Never the best at his position? Simon was the leagues outstanding player in 2006.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471156 4 minutes ago, Jpan85 said: Never the best at his position? Simon was the leagues outstanding player in 2006. and we all know that league awards are 100% accurate........
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471158 4 minutes ago, Jpan85 said: Never the best at his position? Simon was the leagues outstanding player in 2006. I'll use a Bob Irving analogy, "One MOP award does not an all-time great receiver make".
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471159 I would never say Geroy wasn't a great receiver...... but he's MASSIVELY overrated.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471160 2 minutes ago, Noeller said: I would never say Geroy wasn't a great receiver...... but he's MASSIVELY overrated. Later in his career the TSN Hype Machine really tried to make him a legend. He was a Top 5 for sure all time but not the greatest all time. And there's a big difference between #5 & #1.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471162 I'd have no problem slotting Simon at #3 behind Pitts #2 & Stegall #1. And what is wrong with being #3 all time in the CFL as a receiver? That's still one helluva career & something to be proud of.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471164 Just now, SpeedFlex27 said: I'd have no problem slotting Simon at #3 behind Pitts #2 & Stegall #1. And what is wrong with being #3 all time in the CFL as a receiver? That's still one helluva career & something to be proud of. @17to85 was making the case the other day about guys like Terry Vaughn and a few others that are being overlooked in this conversation.... he's not wrong. I'm not convinced that Geroy is 3, but if he is, the drop-off from 2 to 3 is massive.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471166 17 minutes ago, Noeller said: and we all know that league awards are 100% accurate........ He had 1856 yard 15 TD 105 catches that year.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471167 2 minutes ago, Noeller said: @17to85 was making the case the other day about guys like Terry Vaughn and a few others that are being overlooked in this conversation.... he's not wrong. I'm not convinced that Geroy is 3, but if he is, the drop-off from 2 to 3 is massive. That's what I meant about the difference between #5 & below being huge. Vaughan was a great receiver to be sure. So was Darren Flutie, James Murphy, Brian Kelly & on & on...
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471168 2 minutes ago, Jpan85 said: He had 1856 yard 15 TD 105 catches that year. Great season to be sure.
April 22, 20205 yr comment_471171 Geroys’s prime from 2003-2006 he averaged 1653 yards 13 TD 97 catches Pitts prime 4 1991-1995 Average 1721 yards 15 TD 112 catches (took out 1993 season but was on pace for 1995 yards10 TD 116 catches) Milt prime 4 2000-2003 average 1430 17 TD 83 catches (played 4 less games than the other two) just interesting numbers they are three of best no doubt Milt will always be number one Pitts two and Geroy can fit into my three spot. But there have been a ton of really good receiver and debates are always good.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471173 Mookie Mitchell is another guy who I felt was better than Simon but not as long lasting.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471174 His 1998 season was a one of the best ever 2000 yards 10 TD 160 catches
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471187 4 hours ago, 17to85 said: Simon was better as a receiver than Allen was as a qb. he was, but the gap between geroy and milt is the same to me as the gap between allen and flutie.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471190 7 minutes ago, wbbfan said: he was, but the gap between geroy and milt is the same to me as the gap between allen and flutie. No way.... Allen wouldn't IMO hit top 20 qb of all time. Geroy Simon is surely a top 20 receiver of all time. Allen was the CFL version of Art Monk..... really good for a long period of time but never the best.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471191 3 hours ago, Jpan85 said: Never the best at his position? Simon was the leagues outstanding player in 2006. Production is not the same as quality. Doug brown wasnt leading all DTs in tackles and sacks every year, but he was the best at his position. 2006 was also a bit of a thin year, mop is also a fickle political picking with heavy offensive skill position bias, but even then id have given it to brent johnson or charlie roberts over geroy. in 2006 as top wr id still take milt, bruce or tucker over geroy. 2 hours ago, 17to85 said: Mookie Mitchell is another guy who I felt was better than Simon but not as long lasting. 100% In the top 5 wrs of all time you quickly get to a point where you have to choose how you weigh duration of a career vs brilliance in a shorter time span. A bunch of guys with 5 year or smaller sample sizes would be better then geroy pound for pound. 3 hours ago, Noeller said: @17to85 was making the case the other day about guys like Terry Vaughn and a few others that are being overlooked in this conversation.... he's not wrong. I'm not convinced that Geroy is 3, but if he is, the drop-off from 2 to 3 is massive. Vaughn was a murder for a while. Seemed like he could run slant routes on us all day long. 3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said: Man, that was a great team. If only Dave Ritchie could have contained some of those huge egos & big mouths during Grey Cup week they'd have been champions. Bolden ran his mouth all week. Real shame. It felt like we took the foot off the pedal in the second to last game and never got back in the groove after that.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471193 1 minute ago, Brandon said: No way.... Allen wouldn't IMO hit top 20 qb of all time. Geroy Simon is surely a top 20 receiver of all time. Allen was the CFL version of Art Monk..... really good for a long period of time but never the best. The depth of greatness at qb is very different then at wr in modern cfl history though. Geroy is a top 10 wr all day. Allen is top 20 at qb and yes by the sum of his career and not by the peak of his level. The wrs have milt in his own tier then pitts in another then geroy in a crowded tier. The top 4 or 5 cfl qbs are all milt tier. The next 5 ish are pitts tier. Edited April 23, 20205 yr by wbbfan
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471194 Milt put up gawdy receiving stats with the best of them, but its his touchdowns that really separates him. Lets face it, scoring is the most important part of any sport and Milt did it better than any receiver ever by a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide margin. Pitts is 30 away from Milt and Simon is 43 away. Not even close.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471195 1 minute ago, wbbfan said: The depth of greatness at qb is very different then at wr in modern cfl history though. Geroy is a top 10 wr all day. Allen is top 20 at qb and yes by the sum of his career and not by the peak of his level. Are we defining top 20 careers or in their prime in that one moment where you would rank them. I don't think Allen is top 20. If we are talking about who had a long healthy career then Allen would be ranked higher then Garcia despite not being anywhere near as good as him as a player.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471196 Just now, Brandon said: Are we defining top 20 careers or in their prime in that one moment where you would rank them. I don't think Allen is top 20. If we are talking about who had a long healthy career then Allen would be ranked higher then Garcia despite not being anywhere near as good as him as a player. Its all about the weighing of career vs peak. A long career with no peak still has weight where you draw the line is extremely subjective. The point was geroys career was 15 years with 6 years under 755 yards. Compared to the elite wrs its allen esq. Allen played about 150 years (23) with 11 years over 3500 yards and 20 tds 8 times. Garcia was in the cfl for 5 years, started for 4 and above that allen good years mark for 3 years. If you compare their peak 3 year stats youd be surprised. Though garcia was unquestionably a more talented and skilled qb, does that margin in those 3 years edge out the incredible longevity of allen? its subjective but in no way a clear cut thing. At the same rate you could take a bunch of 1 or 2 year and gone cfl wrs like joe horn. You could also argue the reverse, would chad johnson be among the best cfl wrs ever? he didnt play here in his peak but his peak was hands down higher level then geroy simon. Same with andre rison. The tldr is that geroy was great, but elevated above others on the length of his career. Damon allen is an extreme case (as is emit smith) but I used them because they make the point clear and easy (they are the captains of that tier of player for me). Vs the murky arguables mentioned above. How many of damon allens years in the cfl would he have been better then our starter? I feel like its more then half but it might be a bit less. How many of those years would he have taken us to the next level?
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471200 43 minutes ago, wbbfan said: It felt like we took the foot off the pedal in the second to last game and never got back in the groove after that. Just too much overconfidence, wbbfan. Thinking the Stamps would just roll over for the Bombers in 2001. The problem was the core of the Stamps 1998 GC winning team was still intact & they were motivated because they felt disrespected. Nothing like locker room headlines to fire another team up. Football is such an emotional sport, I knew Wally would use everything being said & done that week to fire up his players. If a team chooses to disrespect veterans like Alondra Johnson, Joe Fleming, Kelvin Anderson, Vince Danielsen, Jamie Crysdale, Anwar Stewart, Fred Childress & others that is what happens. I was so upset that week wondering WTH Ritchie was doing as a HC not controlling his players. I've always blamed Ritchie for what happened in what was his worst week ever as a head coach. Still bothers me to this day. Edited April 23, 20205 yr by SpeedFlex27
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471203 Love this conversation... Glad to see I agree with all of it. Ha ha.
April 23, 20205 yr comment_471204 6 minutes ago, Noeller said: Love this conversation... Glad to see I agree with all of it. Ha ha. #wereinthistogether and... #thechampishere... Edited April 23, 20205 yr by SpeedFlex27
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