29 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly if I am picking a qb between Ray and AC I'm taking Ray. 

well I should ******* hope so! They really aren't close.....Ray did so much more by himself, whereas AC relied on a LOT of help, not the least of which was a perennial best OL....

21 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

 Ray is Top10  but hard to slot him in with the Top 5 all time. Same with Tom Clements. Lanky only won a single GC while Etch put up big regular season numbers in the mid 50's but never won a league championship at all.

 

My Top 5

Doug Flutie

Warren Moon

Damon Allen

Ken Ploen

Russ Jackson

 

Damon Allen shouldn't be anywhere near a Top 5, and I'd barely listen to an argument for Top 10.....one of the most overrated of all time. He was a rich man's Tracey Ham...

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Damon Allen shouldn't be anywhere near a Top 5, and I'd barely listen to an argument for Top 10.....one of the most overrated of all time. He was a rich man's Tracey Ham...

Allen won 3 Grey Cups with 3 different teams.  He was the leading passer in the CFL at one time. You can't take that away from him. I used to think he was a lazy kind of player. Extremely talented & got by on that talent but not hard work. But a decade being away has made me appreciate what he accomplished as a player.   Job 1 during the season is preparation & video study. & Allen did just that. A player can't be lazy & just gets by with talent alone. Johnny Manziel is proof of that. 

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by SpeedFlex27

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Allen won 3 Grey Cups with 3 different teams.  He was the leading passer in the CFL at one time. You can't take that away from him. I used to think he was a lazy kind of player. Extremely talented & got by on that talent & not hard work. But a decade being away has made me appreciate what he accomplished as a player.  You can't be lazy & just get by on talent. Johnny Manziel is proof of that. 

Charles Roberts says hi

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Allen won 3 Grey Cups with 3 different teams.  He was the leading passer in the CFL at one time.

He played for approximately 150 years....those stats don't mean anything to me. Especially the yardage...the GCs are more about how much did you do to earn it. Milt didn't win a Grey Cup......Damon Allen won 3. I know they're different positions, but that right there is why GC rings doesn't necessarily equate to greatness for me...

3 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Charles Roberts says hi

Thanks for the input.

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by SpeedFlex27

Just now, Noeller said:

He played for approximately 150 years....those stats don't mean anything to me. Especially the yardage...the GCs are more about how much did you do to earn it. Milt didn't win a Grey Cup......Damon Allen won 3. I know they're different positions, but that right there is why GC rings doesn't necessarily equate to greatness for me...

Which is your opinion & you are entitled to feel that way.  No problem with that & a lot of fans feel the same. 

58 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Burris isn't even as good as AC, and I don't have AC near the Top 5....

He doesn’t need to be. AC was miles better than Ricky Ray. 

2 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

 AC was miles better than Ricky Ray. 

 

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Colin Unger is insane

Confirmed.

4 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

He doesn’t need to be. AC was miles better than Ricky Ray. 

 

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by Noeller

23 minutes ago, Noeller said:

He played for approximately 150 years....those stats don't mean anything to me. Especially the yardage...the GCs are more about how much did you do to earn it. Milt didn't win a Grey Cup......Damon Allen won 3. I know they're different positions, but that right there is why GC rings doesn't necessarily equate to greatness for me...

This I agree with. I think there needs to be a Grey Cup wins against replacement stat.  As it is right now you should win one out of 9 to be league average.  Damon Allen is another QB who was over rated IMO due to the longevity factor.  And what I mean by over rated is if you’re going based on career stats alone to make judgements on how great they were.  I base it more on how good was a player in their peak.  More of a Bobby Orr was the greatest player ever type of view.  Jeff Garcia IMO was a greater CFL qb than Damon Allen but he moved onto the NFL so didn’t put up the career stats.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Noeller said:

 

No mop’s and fewer 30 td seasons than Trevor Harris...   Ricky Ray consistently accumulated yardage. I’ll give him that. 

I can’t stand Henry Burris just as much as the next guy. But I don’t think you can argue with what he did in the field.  Turned 3 franchises around.  Had many more 30 td plus seasons than Ricky Ray and even a 43 td season.  And additionally he added yards on the ground that Ricky never did.  Ricky has inflated yardage stats because he was limited to the passing game. 

5 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

I can’t stand Henry Burris just as much as the next guy. But I don’t think you can argue with what he did in the field.  Turned 3 franchises around.  Had many more 30 td plus seasons than Ricky Ray and even a 43 td season.  And additionally he added yards on the ground that Ricky never did.  Ricky has inflated yardage stats because he was limited to the passing game. 

False. Burris may have been more of a natural runner but Ray did manage to put up decent numbers, in less time. His CFL rushing totals were 3141 yards in 614 attempts (5.1 yard average with a career long 45 yard run).  Burris had 5653 yards after 963 attempts (5.9 yard average with his longest being 34 yards).

The pro-Ray stats would say 4/4 in Grey Cup games, CFL record single game, single season & career completion percentage.  More All-Star nods & 110 less interceptions than Burris.

Nobody is arguing that Burris didn't have a great career because he did.  They each have statistics that will back up an argument for & against them but I would take Ray 10 times out of 10 over Burris.

Interesting development from the CFLPA....players will strike in 2 waves. Ontario and Alberta labour laws don’t put players in a strike position until 4 days after the start of camps.  That might place the CFL in a situation where they lock them all out . Not sure teams in Ontario and Alberta want to incur the expense of bringing players in, housing them and then having to deal with what to do when they strike 4 days later? Simple solution LOCK THEN OUT.

8 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Interesting development from the CFLPA....players will strike in 2 waves. Ontario and Alberta labour laws don’t put players in a strike position until 4 days after the start of camps.  That might place the CFL in a situation where they lock them all out . Not sure teams in Ontario and Alberta want to incur the expense of bringing players in, housing them and then having to deal with what to do when they strike 4 days later? Simple solution LOCK THEN OUT.

already posted and discussed....

Sol to RIders.

A Taman signing without the Taman.

they were hyping up Solly E and Manny A signings today and I chuckled....hope their medical staff is well paid.

8 minutes ago, Noeller said:

they were hyping up Solly E and Manny A signings today and I chuckled....hope their medical staff is well paid.

And well stocked with Geritol.

Yeah banking a lot on aging guys,  and guys coming back from injury, or injury prone now at this point in their careers to  play as good as before in order to be successful...risky play on management there

To hope Collaros..Roosevelt..Labatte and Arceneaux and Bladek whenever they gets back into lineup as well as oft injured Clarke who just suffered an accident is asking a lot...especially with no real depth whatsoever behind them...and who knows if Soli will be the same or take a while to get back to form and if Evans goes down...they are really screwed...

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

He doesn’t need to be. AC was miles better than Ricky Ray. 

Another incorrect hot take. You are on fire today.

2 hours ago, bigg jay said:

 

Confirmed.

Ac was the class of the league at qb for years. He was a product of a better system then maas no doubt. That 2000s form AC was head and shoulders better then the careers of the other 2000s qbs imo. 

Ray was a great qb, one of the best in the 2ks era. Id take peak ray over every qb we had in that timeline. Ray was great, not AC great but great. I think AC, moon and flutie are all head and shoulders better then the next tier. 

Id a been happy to get soli or manny. Not on huge deals though. Theyd be great bargain bin guys. But to hang the success of your season on soo many old guys coming off injuries and bad years with a new HC to boot... "With the first overall pick in the 2020 cfl draft, the crieders select..."

AC, as has been mentioned, was the product of an incredible supporting cast, with a perennially-league-best OL, the main part of it. He never had to do stuff all by himself like so many others did. Ray is so far better than AC it's not even funny. It's incredible to me...truly incredible...that anyone could think otherwise.

Calvillo is massively over rated. Ray was better no question in my mind. His team fell apart around him when Calvillo had a strong team. We saw how the great calvillo looked in 07 when his OL had a rough blip. Ray got his ass kicked and still delivered results. That is what puts him above calvillo and Burris. Burris is a choker and awful team mate.

Burris, Ray, Calvillo... that was the heyday of the CFL. CFL football was never more popular than it was during that era and hasn't been as popular since.