17to85

pointless to try and speculate until we know who is going to be GM next year and what their plan is.

the fact that he isn't starting regardless of what the ratio is doing is a travesty.

He was demoted and then later decided to quit. He saw what Kelly was planning and got the **** out while the getting was good.

It's coaching. Maybe the talent isn't the best in the league, especially at quarterback but my god the coaches are doing nothing to make anyone look better.

keep it within 3 touchdowns and it's as good as a win.

you didn't include TDs?

There's only one guy dumb enough to value a young qb over Ricky Ray and that guy is now unemployable in the CFL. Ray simply put is hands down bar none the best quarterback in the CFL and if you think the Argos would protect Collaros over Ray you're out of your mind.

Lol like it matters, they'll kick the crap out of us regardless.

Kelly could have been a good coach and maybe GM as well if he had been able to put aside the ego, but that ego was so out of control he was actively hurting the team in a vain attempt to prove to people that he was a brilliant GM/HC

he has been cut twice, crapped on by buano as "maxed out potential" and "uncoachable" a tag given to him here as well.. you realize there is more to being a qb then sort of running an offense and throwing the ball over them mountains, right? He calls ISO out for sticking to his guns regarding ettienne, but can't see that he doing the same for Eliot. Meh. They all suck. There's a difference between crapping on a guy no matter what and pointing out that no one has played qb for this team as well as Elliott has. I don't care what Buono said, Elliott was the best qb we've had in the last 2 seasons. It may not be a high bar but that's where it's set and to deny that is to show outstanding levels of ignorance.

but duane forde didn't have him ranked that high!!!111!!

of course Toronto and Hamilton are much better than they were back then too so which is the reality? Bottom line Kelly thought that booting an unpopular kevin glenn would score him points with the fans. Guy is that egotistical he wanted everyone to fall at his feet praising his brilliance.

you go ahead and do that but you'd be wrong. People have been on the offensive line the whole time he's been here except for that brief time at the end of last year when the offense actually did show some progress. Let's not forget that no matter what the yardage numbers showed in 2010 the offense was still highly inconsistent and still went 2 and out a ton, they were just really good at making big plays and getting big chunks of yardage in one off situations. Not sure why people are so adamant that they gotta crap all over Joey Elliott when it is abundantly clear now that he never should have been cut in the first place because he actually did some good things for this team, things that no other qb has managed since.

LOL! Please tell me you didn't type this with a straight face, Mr. Kettle.... I did indeed because I am a very open minded person.

If you want to stop then stop but if you keep hammering away at it I'll keep going because I have nothing better to do.

Hey I like Kohlert as much as the next guy, but Etienne seems like he's got a good pair of mitts too. I'm just a fan of receivers who catch the ball when it comes to them and both of those guys seem to do it.

Etienne hasn't exactly done anything in three seasons to dispute his original opinion of him. And this is coming from a guy who was a big fan of the choice and is still a fan of the player. He also hasn't had a lot of opportunities to do anything given the problems surrounding the team. I mean a player who was picked and the management came right out and said he's a project shouldn't be judged by his first couple years, and it did appear that there were some glimpses of a good player in there at times this year. He certainly has shown glimpses, but I think even less has been expected of Kohlert and he's come through. I still think given the right opportunities than JE can be a fantastic player, but, whether it's his fault or not, this is still a results-oriented business. He hasn't been given a legitimate shot to succeed. His past skillset suggests he just needs room to grow and the right support system around him. He has shown glimpses of not just competence, but excellence. Unfortunately, the results just haven't went his way. This reasoning could be used to defend Jade Etienne. It could also be used to defend Tim Burke. Kohlert hasn't done a lot either though, none of the receivers on this team have. The big difference between Kohlert and Etienne is that Kohlert got into more games and had more passes thrown to him. I like him but just how good is he? A few catches here or there don't prove a hell of a lot and that's something that can be said for every receiver on the team.

Etienne hasn't exactly done anything in three seasons to dispute his original opinion of him. And this is coming from a guy who was a big fan of the choice and is still a fan of the player. He also hasn't had a lot of opportunities to do anything given the problems surrounding the team. I mean a player who was picked and the management came right out and said he's a project shouldn't be judged by his first couple years, and it did appear that there were some glimpses of a good player in there at times this year.

your problem is that you make up your mind about things very quickly and without giving things a chance and stubbornly stick to that no matter what. I at least gave Burke a chance before turning on him. For you Etienne was useless the minute he was drafted.

Either that or the guys we've drafted/signed as OLinemen have all been REALLY bad Well what's easier to believe, that every single player brought in is so devoid of talent that they can't possibly get any better or that the coaching is just unable to help players grow and develop?

For the record, I don't think there are any personal attacks going on here, just attacks on peoples opinions.

The fact that you'd try and make that claim again really goes to show that you haven't actually been reading what I've written. I have never gotten on a soapbox and told anyone how great Mack was, I have argued with people shitting all over everything guy did, there is a very big difference. With regards to you and Etienne you were all over the guy before he even came to training camp, you were all over the guy because he was on the roster but never playing, that's not something to ***** at Etienne for, you have a lot of misguided anger, you should have been critical of the people putting him on the roster when he wasn't ready to be there but no you took every chance to slag the kid. Yeah, so? Players get called out & criticized everyday. You slag Burke everyday. You've slagged Poblah & Buck. You're no better than me or anybody else here who has an opinion so get over it. I slag Burke cause he's done something no one else has done, he's made me stop caring about this team. Slagging Poblah (well all i've said is he's not living up to the hype and seems to have iffy hands) and Buck was done after they had been given chance after chance and failed. I didn't criticize anyone immediately after being drafted just cause they were off the board. oh and by the way, I *AM* better than everyone else here.

The fact that you'd try and make that claim again really goes to show that you haven't actually been reading what I've written. I have never gotten on a soapbox and told anyone how great Mack was, I have argued with people shitting all over everything guy did, there is a very big difference. With regards to you and Etienne you were all over the guy before he even came to training camp, you were all over the guy because he was on the roster but never playing, that's not something to ***** at Etienne for, you have a lot of misguided anger, you should have been critical of the people putting him on the roster when he wasn't ready to be there but no you took every chance to slag the kid.

The situation with this team right now is such that the absolute best thing to do is to do a total housecleaning. New GM, new coaches and let those people decide what the quality of the roster looks like. I have no faith in the current coaches to make a proper determination because they have failed so hard in doing that.

I'm pretty sure he's never said that, it's only people like you who imply that simply because he defends Mack from the UNFAIR criticism he takes. Dave has never suggested Mack doesn't deserve criticism. He's simply suggested that he doesn't always deserve all of it. I've never even said that he didn't deserve to get fired either, all I've ever done was try and provide a balance to the piling on that goes on. Some people like Iso spend all their time harping on Mack doing absolutely everything wrong and it's his fault for every single thing that no one else could possibly take any blame and that's just wrong and I won't stand for it.