17to85

Is it? Bombers did develop Dru Brown who was the most sought after young qb.... what have the argos done? Kelly sure but they developed dukes so well they decided arbuckle was a better choice...

Yeah Shivers was just the angriest old cuss there ever was. Always had an axe to grind with someone.

I don't know if there's a comparable that springs to mind. I just see him as a guy who can be a true dual threat if he's allowed to be. You use him as a fullback though you aren't helping anything.

Streveler came in as a qb and had his initial success as a qb. Somewhere along the way coaches decided he was a runner and that's it. Let him play the position with a full playbook and he either succeeds or he doesn't same as any other player.

Use him as a qb and use him liberally if collaros is going to show his age.

some men just want to watch the world burn

Evergreen statement

From your lips to God's ears...

Kyle walters approach has already got the team to 5 straight Grey cup games... I don't think he needs to be told anything and I don't think Wade Miller is going to start to interfere now.

Kyle walters flat out said in his presser at the end of last year he's trying to win every year. Home Grey cup doesn't change the approach.

If Kyle walters felt signing these guys was THAT important he would have found the money for them. He moved on and wants to use his money elsewhere.

These deals wouldn't be announced if the players were still negotiating. It never happens. Guys know what they're going to be offered and teams don't sit around hoping they can keep guys. They take what happens ans move on.

Lawler is going to have to be replaced by a couple guys. Could make for a deeper group, who knows. Hopefully it forces collaros to not rely on Lawler to bail his ass out all thr time.

Agreed. I'd have invited them all back to camp for sure, but outside Lawler and Dobson you should be able to replace everyone. Change was needed with this group, we'll were getting changes now.

Collaros wants his crutch back... no ****.

I don't think given the changes to the defense we necessarily need to get back to that, but they need a stronger rotation than they had last season. Doesn't have to be 8 guys like it was, but need more out of what they have. Which is probably why you see some of the bodies from that rotation leaving. Forget Jake, he's only here for the lifetime achievement award.

I mean Jake's a problem and his usage was last year for sure.... but it's not the all encompassing issue some make it seem. I choose to believe that lessons were learned last season.

Sure the ol had problems, but there was a lot of pressure that Zach could have mitigated with quicker decision making.

Which is my entire point. It's the fact that Thomas has never been an athletic explosive player... and you've always dismissed him for that even when he was useful. You have a type of player that you always go to bat for no matter what and it ain't the guys who carve out a career despite their less than impressive athleticism. Again all I'm saying is you're really letting the Thomas thing get blown up way more than it is. I'd have tossed him aside years ago too, but it's not as disastrous and scandalous and all telling about everything as some people make it seem.

Collaros even at his best always hung onto the ball and ran around. Problem is he's noticeably slower and can't make the magic happen like he used to. He's lost some explosiveness and speed and he hasn't adapted his game.

Yeah for my money collaros lost the ability to escape in the pocket and he's struggled to play as a pocket passer.

Here's the thing, everyone agrees about Jake Thomas... but you're blowing it up way beyond what it is. My theory is that a tubby guy who gets by just because he was an effort player his whole career is really offensive to you who values athleticism more than most.

Well I wonder if collaros got too comfortable with his crutches and part of this is shaking it up so that the guy can't fall back on just throwing to the guys he trusts. Can't just toss it up and hope Lawler makes a spectacular play anymore. Gotta find someone other than wolitarsky to be at the sticks when he needs him. I dunno just spitballing. Collaros needs to be better all on his own. Shouldn't need receivers to carry him.