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The scouting thing is part accurate and part such a straw man. It has nothing to do with “who have we cut that had gone on to be good elsewhere” because if you wanna play that silly game, include negotiation lists too. Until we evaluate guys in camp better and change our approach, we still really have no idea what side of the coin it is. I do think Rigmaiden was a huge loss for us but I also think it’s unfair to place all of the blame on scouting when we bring these guys to camp and then sometimes they don’t even see an opportunity to touch the field. The whole process is a bit flawed and honestly, I think the biggest disconnect is that our coaching staff and front office don’t really even seem aligned on what they value or what they’re looking for. as an example … what does the process for deciding to draft a guy like Daniels look like? Was that a scouting department preference? Was it an ask for that kind of player by Condell? Something in between? At what point? Because there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t have found an American to fill the exact same role, probably with a better pedigree and skill set and Daniels offers us no advantage ratio wise, but did we even look? Stevie Rocker came to camp for free lunches for a month, you’re telling me it wouldn’t have been better to see if we could find a big American fullback/tight end type instead?

With Zach he'll have input into the offense which may change things in the Red Zone. Condell hasn't had a guy like Zach to work with in years. Certainly not in Ottawa or Hamilton once Zach left. He had Dru Brown in Ottawa who couldn't stay healthy. Condell would have had Bo Levi Mitchell in 2023 but he had that disastrous injury plagued season so they wouldn't have worked together for that long. This is probably Condell's best chance to show his chops as an OC with Collaros.

osh will die with his favs...he has proven that...and i still stand by my opinion he doesnt have the best eye in evaluating actual talent...he looks at the wrong traits as his benchmark

Yeah I was skeptical of ZC going into season but he has shown he still can be elite...and his experience will be key. That game in CGY I was willing to give benefit of doubt with some his weak looking tosses with the weather factor But last night he showed he can still hit intermediate shots with ease, and looks to be a way different in like you mentioned pleasure and doesn't have that frustration on his face like so often last yr. Definitely another receiver target would be beneficial and sure only so many balls to go around, but you want/need a guy also to actually be a threat out there and take attemtion away from others....our 5th guy doesn't do that Look when ZC was really humming...We would have Lawler, Adams, Bailey, Demski and Woli...and they all made impact plays....same with when we had Schoen in lieu of Lawler...5 legit receivers make you better, and all can make huge impacts on games...we've seem it This notion the 5th guy guy can be insignificant and never targeted, and wouldnt effect a game is a load of crap

I’d have to agree. Alexander strikes me as a bit of a knob, but I’ll still pull for him over a garbage human like Chad Kelly.

Yep, though in this case I think it’s the rest of the front office as well. KW has never been a main source of imp talent. No doubt he does some work on that, but by far the least of his contributions. Maybe that’s a problem, but he’s always been mainly a canadian scout. For my money, he does a great job of evaluating ni talent. Now our priorities in the draft have been a bit of a mess. but we are still doing pretty well with ni talent, atleast on D and the ol. The us scouts have not done a good enough job, not by a long shot.

My point is that he’s not a ratio advantage when we start more than we need to to begin with.

He was in as a blocker a bunch. They used a lot of protection schemes.

As always its both MOS and KW. Booch outlined several MOS questionable decisions. GC has mentioned that there are several guys KW didn't sign due to $ and JBR mentioned that our US scouting is subpar which ultimately falls on KW. I'll throw in Wade because he's ultimately responsible for MOS+KW.

We have major problems with American scouting. We basically played an all-American DL with Lawson in there about 2/3 of the time, and zero pressure at any stage of the game. Reese had one pressure, Jones got a sack on a delayed blitz. BLM was not touched or moved off his spot otherwise. We're playing the guys who showed they belonged in camp/pre-season. The results are pretty bad on D. Fletcher, Dixon, Jenkins have all produced squat through 2 games. Fletcher in particular was just getting bullied by the interior of Hamilton's OL. They were opening gaps wider than the 401 when we put Ceresna on the edge and Fletcher in double A with Lawson or 3 tec.

We get rid of Wheatfall & Stearns but we don't sign two players to replace them. That sure seems to be the way the team conducts its free agency. Even keeping one of those 2 around would have made a difference. Or spending the money on another starting receiver that was available in free agency but instead we chose not to. All I know is we have a starting boundary receiver with 26 receptions for 385 career yards & just 2 TDs receiving before this season started . When I see those Wheatfall & Stearns playing very well elsewhere all it tells me that in the coaches meetings last season, we had Hogan telling O'Shea & everyone else in that room that it wasn't subpar coaching that made them play at such a craptacular level. It was the players fault.

This is only partially true though. Look at the DL. We've given multiple "young guys" 2-3 years and they all stink. No one has emerged as a difference maker. Adams, Woods, Garbutt, Haba, Fox, Walker. An even longer list of guys we ran for half seasons, Wilcots, Cooper, K Adams. Now the crew this year, Dixon, Jenkins, Fletcher, Reese. Best guy of that bunch is probably Fox who is just an average CFL player at his best to this point. Not really any playmakers yet. Hope the crew here now can turn that page. Looks to me like a major issue is recruiting the right guys in the first place.

Not really how the ratio works. Daniels doesn't start either. All the "starting" issue means is we're locked into 6 Canadians on the field every snap on O and 2 on D. He plays kickoff return but no cover teams, and basically plays 6 OL on offense. So really he's the 7th OL for how he's being utilized. If they really want that H-back/TE role as being crucial to offense, why not use an American there who can do the job and force teams to actually have to cover the guy when he's out there? There are a ton of American guys who are tweener receiving tight ends who would be actually useful. It would cost a DI spot which would mean instead of Ayers chasing kicks you swap out Daniels for another Canadian who can actually play special teams and Ayers for the American tight end.

Randolph is a big meh to me. His pass protection was horrible and a big reason why our O stank last season. See a massive difference changing him out for Broxton already. Collaros has a chance to get his eyes downfield and get the ball out without having to scramble every drop.

Maybe Eli is out due to injury and gets his job back. However, it's also possible he isn't very good. Let's hope for the first one. I miss Kenny Lawler too

Offence has dramatically improved over last year. Our problem in our loss this week was the D. I could give a crap what Wheatfall and Sterns did this week. They both had big games for us too..problem was they only produced 2 or 3 of them in a season. I'll call letting them go a mistake when they actually put up a decent season not just show the occasional flash. They were two guys that the vast majority of this forum wanted gone. What's changed? Broxton is why

Did we not sign White and Nield?

I can't help but think both of these offenses would rip us a new one.

none of those guys played under mos

He had close to 400 yards passing. To me, I'd say that was pretty great.

I do enjoy listening to Neilson and Willson tho..Willson is good at color..ads a lot to broadcast.. Suitor ads nothing

Then what the **** was it? The int that was tossed wasn't his fault. Receiver wound up on his ass. He threw a touchdown pass to Nield early which the Receiver didn't haul in. If the defense had played half assed decently, not even good, just not god awful collaros likely drops 40 points on Hamilton and goes over 500 yards.

Yep. And we already see some of the golden oldie wrinkles from previous ocs being brought back. That’s almost certainly input from zach. They have a good chance to off set each others weaknesses. Which would make for a great season of bomber football.

There has to be a receiver on someone's PR we can bring in to compete with Cobb. Why do we do **** like this??? I mean, they let Dobson walk to Hamilton where he became their starting Center. Osh keeps Kolo until this off season. He signs with the Cats & isn't on the field. Makes no sense to me at all what we were tryin g to do. just tells me how much better we could be if we played the best players within the ratio. That, in itself is damned frustrating. How good could we actually be?

I think with Smith at Wil and keep Griffin put...Use Kramdi like we used Griffin...essentially in all the time anyway like he was...dime..on the edge off line...quasi free safety mode and put Allen back at safety we would be way better served. Especially when Woodbey is back and we can sit one of Wilson/Jones as Ayers and Woodbey...I bet if given chance even Shay could handle the middle...and be way more mobile and not as lost in coverage....like Jones specifically...Wilson isnt as bad

He says not even 24 hours after Collaros turns back the clock and goes off for 421 yards. Makes sense to me.

Just to touch on scouting and add to the conversation, look how much new talent we were pumping out from 2018-2022, who is a high impact player we’ve added in the past three years? Holm is the only example I can thing of. Obviously elite football players don’t grow on trees but when your core is starting to age out you have to build from scouting or free agency. Obviously I like what we did during free agency but when you’re picking up vets to fill those holes you’re paying a premium. Part of bringing in young talent is they’re still on rookie contracts, I think our team and roster is starting to see the consequences of poor scouting over the last couple of seasons.

Well to be honest changin anyone for Broxton would be massive The Condell effect with layered receivers and gguys running complimentary routes to free up space is also a huge difference I saw zero issues in Randophs game last night...sure its one game but he also another yr older and experienced...just like Wheatfall..was basically a rookie last yr so for sure you would think yr 2 as a starter he would take it up a notch..and seems he has..he schooled us mighty fine...and played well previous game fumble or not..everyone has fumbled

Adams..Fox and Garbutt all still on a roster..tho Garbutt is hurt Thing is we let Dobson walk and chose to keep Kolo instead..obviously our HC valued him over the younger better guy...and we didn't lose him to $$ issues..was poor decision making...easy fix..cut Kolo and his 165k salary he stole here...funnel it to Dobson and kick in a few scheckles but we chose to keep the lesser player...and thats not isolated incident. We used to find dline talent..but we also played them right outta the gate while a lesser JT was last in line..Poop...Bryant..Stove.. Then we relied on JT..Scmeck..Korn and figured we were "good and deep" never targeted some prime FA'S who coulda turned the tide and guys we did bring in had to scratch and claw for any reps while JT and Scmeck/Korn gobbled up the lionshare...pretty hard to develop and evaluate guys on minimal reps Best thing to do this yr is let Dixon..Reese..Fletcher get game experience early and often and see where they at in 4..5 games..and if we need better than get someone else up here..we just break camp and settle witu who we picked come hell or high water..that just baffles me

Ratio advantage if yeah a starter...and u have a backup to compliment..right now he just an end of roster guy We used multiple looks with him and Eli at same time..we could have done same with one of MCI or Clercius when healthy and used that pick on a legit reciever to compliment what we have and be able to pooch Cobb and Corc's or grabbed another defensive guy who can actually play...not just run up and down field covering kicks If anything thats the easiest thing to do on a roster...so picking scrubs with no upside is just a waste really Osh lost his plans.. when is last time he did anything unpredictable or against the grain? Besides crappy roster choices We have no plan...or is it poor arcitecture? We have this dumb idea we can go 3 national recievwrs..so we hold 3 imports on the PR...ass backwards Thing is its easy...we just dont give new or young guys the opportunity...and play tires with no tread basically right up to the steel belts

Yeah collectively they need to be better.. be able to make the tuff decisions..if it steps on toes or hurts egos..so be it...part of the business they signed up for...and if they can't do it..step aside..or get put aside And then dont get starteded on the poor use...and allocation of guys on the PR...Ours right now makes no sense

Kelly over others on roster Kolo over any pylon we had JT over many a DT The Marine Corcoran over Clercius last yr...I dont care if ZC was annoyed..he doesn't pick the roster Sam Hurl Kramdi over Griffin Korn...just being on a roster Thats just off top my head Sure the ownus is on Walters but he isnt out scouting guys..he just signs what the scouts bring to him...he looks at cis talent certainly and we've missed on a lot of picks..hit on a few Guys tho cut in camp who never really got a shot cause it was predetermined we were going with the old vet..thats on Osh...and who knows what they could have done..I sure that happens elsewhere too and rarely u grab an other teams tc castoff right away until you exhausted your own work first. Funny tho most of the guys we had rostered and moved on from before seem to land elsewhere and play well..and play for a while...this season alone we seen a ton of it Again..I agree its a collective effort...but end of day its one guy picking the roster..and making the decisions A collective coaching effort is coaches suggesting...not demanding and having final say...its the HC and if he sees a coach leaning to a lesser player he needs to have the ability to say...Nope , not happening A HC letting a assistant coach or a meddling owner pick his roster...is on fast track to unemployment...or middling success

Right cuz the o is the problem after 2?weeks. Ppl be insane after 1 loss.

If we want a 12-13 win offense we need a vertical threat other than Demski. Like a guy who is 6'1+ who is reliable and knows how to use his body to make space to win contested balls, maybe useful in screen game/bit of YAC threat on the edge. If we really wanted to stay Canadian on O, could have thrown a pile of cash at a guy like Brissett to pair with Nield. I personally would have spent all the free agent money on O. You win with O in this league. Ceresna is nice to have but you need to find the next batch of those guys on rookie deals, not pay him 230,000 or whatever it is. It's nice if you can spring guys like Wilson or White wide open schematically but there's going to be days when it's a slog to move the ball too and you just need a guy you can put on the boundary, force man by formation and have that guy win his route where the QB can put it out there and the guy can go make a play without that QB needing to hit the head of a pin with an perfectly accurate pass.

Our db’s obviously did not play at all where they need to be and football being the ultimate team sport our dline also allowed old man levi to run thru his reads with ease even wheelchairing his way on a 15 yard scamper of his own. ugh. Oh and our linebackers, I really miss having a dominant middle linebacker seems like an eternity since we did. Gametape review is going to be fun for all.

Not sure if I would use "great" to describe Collaros' performance but it was certainly enough to win if we had an even mediocre effort by the defence. It seems obvious that his arm is not what it has been, but with a decent supporting cast, we ought to be competitive.

No one can say Collaros played badly. He played great. Our passing game was humming. Nield & Tim White are going to a thousand yard receiver for us. So will Demski if he stays healthy. Wilson is our deep threat. If we can improve our boundary receiver & bench Cobb we'll be tough to stop. Zach made one mistake all night trying to get a touchdown in FG range. He could probably throw that pass a dozen times & Kasatonis has no play on it. He was in the right spot at the right time. It looks like Collaros is having fun again. Just shows you what a stupid decision it was to promote Hogan then keep him as an OC last season.

Chad Kelly is despicable, but watching him and Alexander chucking footballs effortlessly and accurately reminds me that Collaros is approaching the limit of his shelf life rapidly.

A valid argument.

Sadly your day dreaming makes sense. .a lot of sense...too bad our HC has daydreams of something else

**** all sex pests... But especially Chad Kelly. Go Als Go....

Just daydreaming but Smith in Kyries spot. Kramdi in Kelly’s spot. Cam Allen at FS. One of Hallett/Kelly/Bouliane comes off roster. Give Shay some reps at wil and mac too and at least see what he can do, for a guy so highly touted he barely sees the field. Wilson ain’t it at this point in his career and if the D can’t function without Kramdi on the field every play then the whole operation needs to be gutted quite honestly. Tony Jones needs to be replaced sooner or later too but short of a trade, that’s an offseason project.

Thing is...Griffin is way better SAM than Kramdi and thru 2 games has been one our more consistent defenders. We tied to Kramdi tho somewhere as would look kinda bad paying your 3rd highest paid defender on the bench..he is best in a situation role but we pay him like some elite guy..and he just isnt..who cares how smart he is. When woodbey is back we be better served pulling one of Jones or Kyrie and putting Allen at safety..we dont need 2 canadians to meet ratio on defence. And if we give will over to Smith we definitely dont need to go with a canadian safety. When Eli is 100 percent as well it makes better sense to go back Canadian there and use that extra import elsewhere too..hopefully reciever with Singer and then we could be covered using Vaval more on defence..Guy is a playmaker and could be that on defence too

So yeah the total passing numbers weren't huge... but the troubling part is that whenever Hamilton tried to pass, it was there. Pitch and catch with wide open guys all night AND run game whenever they wanted it too. Just totally unprepared to play on D. Everyone making the comparison to the Jim Daley era defense is spot on. It was that kind of smelly bad. Lucky for us the Hamilton D was almost as bad so the score wasn't a total blow out. Offense looks a lot better than last season already.

J.Smith should start at one of the linebacker spots when healthy and Shay should get reps. If Shay is a bigger liability than Kelly who gets reps then we ****** up on that pick.

I actually think a guy like Santos-Knox brings that no-nonsense attitude to defense. I think he was brought in to shore up some of the attitude issues. It's too bad he's hurt. But color Me concerned for our defense.

I don't think it is any exaggeration to say Zach had had more guys open on those intermediate routes in two games then all of last year combined. WTF were we even doing last year? Someone asked if Nichols was cooked. At the stadium, it sure looked that way. A step behind, and missed a bunch of tackles when he was in the right spot. I actually thought Moxey was in decent coverage half the time but you would think a vet like him would know how to look for the damn ball.

The offense was far from "sputtering" The defense absolutely blew a fantastic Collaros performance. Watched the post game from O'Shea last, you know we all knew the same issue, which was the defense.