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comment_458579
9 hours ago, 17to85 said:

What the **** do the Bidens have to do with Trump obstructing congress or his abuse of power?

Legal rational is POTUS has a right to investigate corruption by an american politician in a foreign country. Biden somehow got his unemployed unskilled son on a ukranian energy company BOD. Trump defense wants it explained.

A legal rebuttal to the "abuse of power" prosecution theory.

Edited by Zontar

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comment_458598
1 hour ago, Zontar said:

Legal rational is POTUS has a right to investigate corruption by an american politician in a foreign country. Biden somehow got his unemployed unskilled son on a ukranian energy company BOD. Trump defense wants it explained.

A legal rebuttal to the "abuse of power" prosecution theory.

yet Joseph Cofer Black is on the board @ burisma with little to no experience or qualifications and he's not being investigated... oh right, because his dad isn't running against trump...

JCB is also the business partner of Erik Prince... that might also be why he's untouched...

    comment_458600
    10 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

    yet Joseph Cofer Black is on the board @ burisma with little to no experience or qualifications and he's not being investigated... oh right, because his dad isn't running against trump...

    JCB is also the business partner of Erik Prince... that might also be why he's untouched...

    Is he running for president ? Not really the same thing, is it ?

    comment_458605
    38 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

    yet Joseph Cofer Black is on the board @ burisma with little to no experience or qualifications and he's not being investigated... oh right, because his dad isn't running against trump...

    JCB is also the business partner of Erik Prince... that might also be why he's untouched...

     

    Edited by do or die

    comment_458607
    2 hours ago, Zontar said:

    Legal rational is POTUS has a right to investigate corruption by an american politician in a foreign country. Biden somehow got his unemployed unskilled son on a ukranian energy company BOD. Trump defense wants it explained.

    A legal rebuttal to the "abuse of power" prosecution theory.

    That's not a legal rebuttal, it's an attempted distraction. Biden and his son have zero to do with Trump and his obstruction of congress or abuse of power. Investigating Biden isn't the issue, it's the how he went about it and as always, the cover up is worse than the crime. 

    So really what is either biden going to bring as a witness? They are irrelevant in terms of the articles trump was impeached under. The only reason you bring up Biden is to distract from the real issue. Trump would be proud  but people here aren't dumb enough to buy that crap.

    comment_458611
    2 hours ago, Zontar said:

    Legal rational is POTUS has a right to investigate corruption by an american politician in a foreign country. Biden somehow got his unemployed unskilled son on a ukranian energy company BOD. Trump defense wants it explained.

    A legal rebuttal to the "abuse of power" prosecution theory.

    Well, first off....I am pretty suspicious of "connections" when it comes to long time, high profile politicians, of any stripe.   Including Biden.   If he and his son have done anything shady, the US has their law enforcement agencies, House and Senate, as tools to initiate investigation and should do so.

    But blackmailing a foreign government, by withholding aid already approved and passed by Congress, to have them initiate an investigation into a domestic political opponent (or any US citizen, for that matter).....has no moral or legal rational and sets a terrible precedent, regardless of who is in the White House, now or later.

    Having a back channel process and bypassing official channels, with Uncle Rudy (and Panas) smearing a US ambassador and engineering her removal, to smooth their path, adds even more odium.

    Of course Trump and Rudy could have been simply selflessly battling corruption, as they see it.  If anyone really believes that.....please contact me, to obtain some outstanding real estate opportunities

     

    comment_458614
    4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

    That's not a legal rebuttal, it's an attempted distraction. Biden and his son have zero to do with Trump and his obstruction of congress or abuse of power. Investigating Biden isn't the issue, it's the how he went about it and as always, the cover up is worse than the crime. 

    So really what is either biden going to bring as a witness? They are irrelevant in terms of the articles trump was impeached under. The only reason you bring up Biden is to distract from the real issue. Trump would be proud  but people here aren't dumb enough to buy that crap.

    Shrug. You asked how they thought Biden was relevent. And I answered.

    comment_458632
    5 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

    Not really in this case... it's more "why Biden and not JCB if corruption was the issue" and less "it's fine because Obama did it too"

    But it is . Youre asking what about JCB and why isnt that being investigated if WH is so worried about corruption.

    "Whataboutism" is a weasel term anyway. If there is a lack of consistency it should be pointed out every time.

    Edited by Zontar

    comment_458640
    6 minutes ago, Zontar said:

    But it is . Youre asking what about JCB and why isnt that being investigated if WH is so worried about corruption.

    "Whataboutism" is a weasel term anyway. If there is a lack of consistency it should be pointed out every time.

    "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. It is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda"

    I am not saying you are a hypocrite- I am saying that trump's corruption angle is not consistent and thus more about the target than the cause.

     

    comment_458641
    30 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

    That's not a legal rebuttal, it's an attempted distraction. Biden and his son have zero to do with Trump and his obstruction of congress or abuse of power. Investigating Biden isn't the issue, it's the how he went about it and as always, the cover up is worse than the crime. 

    So really what is either biden going to bring as a witness? They are irrelevant in terms of the articles trump was impeached under. The only reason you bring up Biden is to distract from the real issue. Trump would be proud  but people here aren't dumb enough to buy that crap.

    Biden adheres to an international effort to clean up corruption by pushing out a guy who would *not* investigate Burisma.  If Biden did anything, it actually was to the detriment of his kid's company.

    Trump loves stomping out corruption so much he surrounds himself with criminals and fraudsters and seeks to investigate ONE thing he considers corrupt that happens to impact his likely opponent who he thinks can beat him.

    Everything Trump did was so on the up and up he proceeds to lie, cover it up, refuse to let anyone involved explain it.

    Trump doesnt want the children of politicians trading on their parents fame and positions....ummmmm yeah. lol

    I mean...its absurd right?  

    Anyone arguing this is a troll.  Its not about whether Trump did it, its about whether he should be removed.  Its a fact he did it.  They admitted it!

    comment_458654

    New Republican containment plan:

    Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) on Monday night said the White House should give senators access to Bolton’s draft book, which claims President Trump linked security assistance for Ukraine with an investigation of former Vice President Joe Biden. Lankford said the manuscript could be viewed in the Senate’s Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF).

    The highly secure room located in the basement level of the Capitol Visitors Center is usually used for classified briefings or to review sensitive intelligence and national security documents.

     

    We are talking about a book, that will be available to everybody on the planet, within months.   But the contents need to be hidden for now......or will be "interpreted" in the proper fashion.  Perhaps they could get Barr or Nunes...simply to issue a "summary"

    Really.

    Edited by do or die

    comment_458661
    8 minutes ago, do or die said:

    New Republican containment plan:

    Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) on Monday night said the White House should give senators access to Bolton’s draft book, which claims President Trump linked security assistance for Ukraine with an investigation of former Vice President Joe Biden. Lankford said the manuscript could be viewed in the Senate’s Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF).

    The highly secure room located in the basement level of the Capitol Visitors Center is usually used for classified briefings or to review sensitive intelligence and national security documents.

     

    We are talking about a book, that will be available to everybody on the planet, within months.   But the contents need to be hidden for now......or will be "interpreted" in the proper fashion.  Perhaps they could get Barr or Nunes...simply to issue a "summary"

    Really.

    I wonder if they would mind a bunch of Dems storming the SCIF.

    And yeah, the book will be public so whats to hide?  They clearly want to preview it before they decide if it will hurt Trump (or how much).  The fact the White House kept it a secret should tell that tale.

    The fact Trump publicly called Bolton a liar should lift any gags.

    comment_458688

    Former Trump Chief of Staff John Kelly tells Sarasota crowd ‘I believe John Bolton’

    "Asked if Bolton - Trump’s former national security adviser - should testify at Trump’s impeachment trial, Kelly said he supports calling witnesses.

    President Donald Trump is denying that he told former National Security Advisor John Bolton he wanted to withhold military aid from Ukraine until the country launched investigations into Joe Biden and his son, allegations that Bolton levies in his new book, according to news reports.

    But one of Trump’s former top aides told a Sarasota audience Monday evening that if the reporting on what Bolton wrote is accurate, he believes Bolton.

    “If John Bolton says that in the book, I believe John Bolton,” said retired Gen. John Kelly, who served as Trump’s chief of staff for 18 months."

    https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20200128/former-trump-chief-of-staff-john-kelly-tells-sarasota-crowd-rsquoi-believe-john-boltonrsquo

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